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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/21/19 11:01 AM, Jonas Smedegaard
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:155318409433.19101.14959507909059434672@auryn.jones.dk">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Quoting François Téchené (2019-03-21 13:58:25)
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On 20/03/2019 18:51, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Let me try rephrase to something I can recognize as actionable:
I translate it to basing PureOS on Debian stable, not Debian
testing, missing out on GNOME 3.32 and libhandy at first but winning
that back as soon as we have the resources (manpower,
infrastructure, etc.) for maintaining the needed delta from Debian.
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OK, I misunderstood and it is clearer now.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
NB: I am not convinced that above is best for us to do¹, only trying
here to align design team needs with PureOS team abilities.
Personally I believe strongly in aligning very closely with Debian -
differentiating from Debian only in *choices* but not code content.
I believe that by getting _closer_ to Debian, we can with _little_
manpower manage _two_ flavors of PureOS:
* PureOS 8.0 "green" - rolling release based on Debian testing
* PureOS 10.0 "blue" - a mature OS based on Debian stable
*both* flavors would follow exact same design principles.
Laptops can choose either, phones can only use "green" for now.
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Having 2 flavours of PureOS would be fine for me if we were a Software
company making PureOS as a product. However, we are a computers
manufacturer and PureOS is a component of our product, which is the
Librem computer.
In my understanding, our big vision is to make computers that target
the human beings (period). A wide majority of the people don't care
about the OS component of a computer. Some of them don't even know
what an OS is. They just know that if they buy that particular
computer, after they switch it on, they will see that particular human
interface.
Therefore, having to understand the difference and choosing between
green and blue, is impossible for a big part of human beings.
For the technical ones, PureOS green won't be more interesting than
Debian testing... or Debian Sid, or Parabola...
So we should focus on making a single distribution that is the OS
component of our computers and not planing on putting our effort on
supporting several flavors of PureOS for the long term.
I understand that it may be technically the only way for us to go, in
the short term, but it shouldn't be the long term plan.
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Hmm, I realize now that you made this very same point in your initial
post, which I understood but forgot in my last part above. Sorry!
Flavors are needed technically even if not conceptually, however, as you
also recognize here above. Let me try unite technical and design views:
Conceptually we offer one PureOS, but technically one of more flavors.
We promote PureOS as a single thing towards our users, but it is
possible for them to know the flavor (needed e.g. for bug tracking).
Currently we have 2 flavors, one for laptops and one for phones
(ignoring additional draft/development flavors not promoted to users).
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<p>Let me throw another wrench into the gears. We have servers on
the horizon. I would say priority has risen to roll these out in
less than 6 months but we have something in the works now to sell.
How does this affect things?</p>
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cite="mid:155318409433.19101.14959507909059434672@auryn.jones.dk">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
We will continue to have (at least) 2 flavors for (at least) 6 months:
Phones need features too unstable even for Debian testing.
We can decide to stabilize laptop flavor: Pace of Debian testing slows
down during "freeze" and we can choose to "get off the rollercoster"
before it speeds up again, by switching to track Debian stable instead.
We get this option only once every 2-4 years during each Debian freeze
period.
If we stay on the rollercoaster then we can likely get the laptop and
phone flavors closer to each other within a year, but we CANNOT
realistically STABILIZE either of them within a year.
We can decide to "make our own slow rollercoaster" with a rhythm of e.g.
6 months, instead our options at Debian or either 6 hours or 2-4 years.
Developing a "rollercoaster" is a far more complex journey than choosing
between Debian stable and Debian testing, however, so we can spend
resources on that now but we cannot expect to have available to us the
choice of _using_ that until maybe 6-12 months later. Also using our
own "rollercoaster" is far more resource demanding than leaning on
Debian.
We can decide to "make our own split reality" where core parts follow
Debian (or our own rollercoaster when ready) and other parts ar pulled
in from elsewhere - e.g. GNOME project provides GNOME parts. From we
take such a decision and until we can offer it to our users takes time.
Time to develop and test how we ensure that our users are... ours - i.e.
how we can possibly handle bugs in those parts provided not by us. Or
if those "upper" parts _are_ provided by us then we need to develop and
test our procedures to do that, and invest in resources to do it. Only
when that is established we have the choice of _using_ such "split
reality".
Hope above framing of options makes it possible for both tech and design
folks to discuss further together (and that everyone agrees on those
options being the ones on the table now).
- Jonas
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- Omar<br>
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