From jeremiah.foster at puri.sm Fri Feb 1 09:18:40 2019 From: jeremiah.foster at puri.sm (Jeremiah C. Foster) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 12:18:40 -0500 Subject: [PureOS] I CAN HAZ MIRROR? In-Reply-To: <154888723907.5603.9853550471042505528@auryn.jones.dk> References: <75766f40ff5d472e5cb1078ce44494485d8bc7e7.camel@puri.sm> <154888723907.5603.9853550471042505528@auryn.jones.dk> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Wed, 2019-01-30 at 23:27 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Jeremiah C. Foster (2019-01-30 22:51:57) > > There are some folks who're will to mirror our PureOS distro which > > is > > very generous of them. One of them, linux.pizza ( > > https://mirror.linux.pizza/) recommends we use rsync to support > > mirrors. There is another potential mirror in the US who'll work > > with > > rsync too. > > > > What are the recommended locations to point our rsync daemon at so > > that other sites might mirror our repos? This is what they mirror > > for > > Debian; https://mirror.linux.pizza/debian/ > > Related: What do we require from mirrors? What do we kindly request? > > What info do we provide ourselves about our sources? E.g. where is a > public page stating at what frequency our archive is updated, its > size, > and which mirrors we encourage to use, and what statistics we hav > gathered about our own hosting and our knowledge of mirrors? > > For inspiration, here is a starting point for the equivalent at > Debian: > https://www.debian.org/mirror/ftpmirror This looks like something we should copy. I'll get that started. Regards, Jeremiah -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEBkkHqXr+u7OUqMKseFgrT+6RsjkFAlxUf3AACgkQeFgrT+6R sjmsjQwAxbJ0rG82VUtGtlxZ47WYxeBDP6/LxQHu9QV9kmKlnZNeyO+4dsAAIsXT b/R3St5HQMi4tT5xEW3B6aJqq0tnrcNQRdADPGDc/i7/C5jM3vcoEJ7b7guiVNPZ B6LIdYZr7mrYl9h4ogH4ABNef2nnpn87t50qPpftQOq7m88jjenD19YNP56jiuoo j7LQvjyRsvQy+oaQ2t4UKfItBohnwQTrEt6Qs7YaF6GfxrcQRvF5iBvZWmrhUSZN wKBGV2AF//0TM0UxQ3r1y8clGvJazDgpolwPpPOn2D+P/4JpKXLQTOo4BLhqHr45 ejRuaNJSsulXUTkzaKKJWmT+eIUYMc6jlMfwdUUvOEjZ6aHdbDdRyQBH2KaMGGBo X7NFJ/G63w2gIone0FEp7qfmsDHguzpzk8WwcPesB8LCjNylVw77I+tkl0YEeAmC 5X0tGtD4vZablWHhVUskwGLv7fEYAwn2C0IrzxEkHVcrT3b0ts32VbX2aDRq6P4X XyksxPV5 =ooLD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeremiah.foster at puri.sm Fri Feb 1 09:24:28 2019 From: jeremiah.foster at puri.sm (Jeremiah C. Foster) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2019 12:24:28 -0500 Subject: [PureOS] I CAN HAZ MIRROR? In-Reply-To: <1548886434.1428489.1647331424.65B146CA@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <686008.ba31d7346936f1a302057cb44255099ae5f9e0f6@popretr.messagingengine.com> <75766f40ff5d472e5cb1078ce44494485d8bc7e7.camel@puri.sm> <1548886434.1428489.1647331424.65B146CA@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Wed, 2019-01-30 at 23:13 +0100, Chris Lamb wrote: > Jeremiah wrote: > > > There are some folks who're will to mirror our PureOS distro which > > is > > very generous of them. > > Alas, I fear this is a bigger question that just rsync daemon > settings. :) > > Whilst extremely kind of them, how will this work for our users? Do you mean how do we enable our users to easily take advantage of the mirrors? E.g. not having to edit source.list.d/ by hand? > Ask them to alter their sources.list? Are we going to commit to > providing a CDN of some description? Is a CDN necessary? > Even a round-robin DNS solution has issues in that we have no > immediate, insight or control over whether any "non-official" > mirror is up-to-date, something obviously important from a user > point of view. > > Thoughts? On balance I feel the benefits of a mirror outweigh the risks, at least if we are clear with how we handle the mirrors. I'll follow-up on Jonas' suggestion and look into the CDN. In researching this a little it seems quite common to provide a mirror list, like Kali does: https://http.kali.org/README.mirrorlist If only to enable "power users" who likely download a fair amount I think this would be a benefit. There have been comments in the forum and other places that downloads can be slow. I'll propose some documentation based on what the community best practices seem to be and come back to this list for review and comment. Regards, Jeremiah -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEBkkHqXr+u7OUqMKseFgrT+6RsjkFAlxUgMwACgkQeFgrT+6R sjmXUwv/ZRIJG7OrCbVat7qKE8RQulAMokvT3XmNFPjFTef6U5dPXW1s12H1EVwA MxhN7OsZAoYw35uZ3yChKHAnz8tzLiBa93CFWCxEGpM2iRlN6sBLVrC8Zpeb0WG3 5mWvgkz4AqkoGFjE3f/fILXTTHFwL7PDm8hrWW8WdH3HwQN8Uey1f4gxwWdiJDX2 ffMnBujLBPD7lXgW+gRYltiUYAe2CtXtY7HbwDyoooNizGevpJXHULAF1U8yzFfe xjRbrzCgYCgUhLNviwa8pjMCfco9vyaEElZiztTtPsi0KEVLHKnIYogPmo4q13+4 C9kjlZRcM5iGTTv8nfGIKowbzt0hPDPRbnSEFdj/5LUv1TL8JQcRauhncvpLapfx wvdWxYCcjEcUnhTPmxHAe81L/SU0SBmWnGQREaPmTc7bPuO2v36n1b/90/3vfKl+ W02JJh0RuLoJbUN1CHm1akNiFgaheeM7BH1dl4W7/swXNkRIuMavkjcNw8XwXgCI Fl4I5yWz =xpf/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeremiah.foster at puri.sm Fri Feb 15 09:23:16 2019 From: jeremiah.foster at puri.sm (Jeremiah C. Foster) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 12:23:16 -0500 Subject: [PureOS] Clarification of PureOS browser and browser policy Message-ID: <65999c030e1f4289b0256ba58cf1a732cf0b457f.camel@puri.sm> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi, We have a rather sizable backlog of issues around the PureBrowser: https://tracker.pureos.net/project/board/1/ I point this out not as a criticism of Jonas, the PureBrowser maintainer, but to highlight that we do not have a clear, distilled policy document that might mitigate some of the issues in the backlog. One example is this issue: https://tracker.pureos.net/T699 That issue comes from a video of PureOS which makes some inaccurate claims. The video was linked in our bug tracker and I went through the video and pulled out the claims so that they can be refuted, T699 tracks one such claim of not having httpseverywhere enabled per default. Having a policy for an issue like this would allow someone to quickly go to our policy, quote it in the issue tracker and/or demonstrate that in fact we do have httpseverywhere installed, and then close the bug which I feel is a positive outcome. As it stands now, we have a lot of issues that seem to attract a lot of commentary but little change is effecutated. For me the point of an issue tracker is to track the progress of the issue to the point where it is no longer an issue and it is closed. Is this a shared view from folks on this list? Regards, jeremiah -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEBkkHqXr+u7OUqMKseFgrT+6RsjkFAlxm9YQACgkQeFgrT+6R sjnVagv+L0v1WkdLZ3jL2NoZbJr8ROE2/SPUyBe67chr1v1dOJIyyxcw9/Ol1FGU dztk+/XwKri9SHlV9lP7lTim/RxPbZ5wxVPQf+S3n8KDNnOOBdpRbo0xRYd/qqTM aIeYrfZTwmJcK+cszrr8Zpse1YUaB6RgMvj/0XFHRlbGVvUCXeYafxomtsAz4Ron huz57a50lqXgOP0hQ4mYp3mCvPOJZQokTnNVJon5oifNbGf7+Ex/qW68B9/5aVoU I7TCY3W2TT26RnKxIHMKOHMOkmidWt+DRxh7QCxS1OMkhf+4KxDGboyRRDUBGH1/ IJu7XQFCwQ+bbtWT2ZSRqxgnPxaPgjhIt3ypGOBiBOWDX/f8Wrdq0I+RsS/boIGS A26CGs47NTEU/C4LActM3Sg+IvS7+r2LHr4USgw/Zxyn7lvO1EJ/332whA+ZAsvg XXQOc1PznOrIovUZJsTVoReQbOPIS/p9W4CM0bBFCN0R/JiuT57eBKEzA8+/EKUE T349zjsC =a8Ly -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jonas.smedegaard at puri.sm Fri Feb 15 13:36:08 2019 From: jonas.smedegaard at puri.sm (Jonas Smedegaard) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 22:36:08 +0100 Subject: [PureOS] Clarification of PureOS browser and browser policy In-Reply-To: <65999c030e1f4289b0256ba58cf1a732cf0b457f.camel@puri.sm> References: <65999c030e1f4289b0256ba58cf1a732cf0b457f.camel@puri.sm> Message-ID: <155026656890.21784.2145951440458509826@auryn.jones.dk> Hi Jeremiah, Quoting Jeremiah C. Foster (2019-02-15 18:23:16) > I point this out not as a criticism of Jonas, the PureBrowser > maintainer, but to highlight that we do not have a clear, distilled > policy document that might mitigate some of the issues in the backlog. > > One example is this issue: https://tracker.pureos.net/T699 That issue > comes from a video of PureOS which makes some inaccurate claims. The > video was linked in our bug tracker and I went through the video and > pulled out the claims so that they can be refuted, T699 tracks one > such claim of not having httpseverywhere enabled per default. Seems you talk about https://tracker.pureos.net/T519 - and that you today filed a duplicate of https://tracker.pureos.net/T273 > Having a policy for an issue like this would allow someone to quickly > go to our policy, quote it in the issue tracker and/or demonstrate > that in fact we do have httpseverywhere installed, and then close the > bug which I feel is a positive outcome. As it stands now, we have a > lot of issues that seem to attract a lot of commentary but little > change is effecutated. I am not convinced that a policy helps triage issues, but perhaps I am simply not imaginative enough and it could help if you elaborate on what you think such policy might contain? > For me the point of an issue tracker is to track the progress of the > issue to the point where it is no longer an issue and it is closed. Is > this a shared view from folks on this list? As pointed out above I don't share your view for the whole paragraph - but if you refer only to the previous sentence then I agree (and wonder which other views are reasonable). Thanks for initiating this discussion, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: signature URL: From chris.lamb at puri.sm Mon Feb 18 00:57:34 2019 From: chris.lamb at puri.sm (Chris Lamb) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:57:34 +0100 Subject: [PureOS] "PureOS changes" notifications Message-ID: <1550480254.3414442.1660005272.3A52A003@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi -project, Many years ago I created an IRC bot for Debian that would live on its own channel and simply notify on new uploads, bugs and similar changes in that distribution: https://chris-lamb.co.uk/projects/debian-devel-changes-bot … it is now rather popular and, indeed, many people have noted to me in the interim years not only how motivating it was to be exposed to others' work like that without having to explicitly or actively look for it but it informs & keeps them up-to-date on the project in a wider, less-technical, sense. I found it also a valuable learning tool — if I don't understand a bug report that scrolls past I sometimes click it and invariably end up learning something I didn't previously know. § In this light, I created the following ticket early last year to get this rolling for PureOS: https://tracker.pureos.net/T375 … however, movement on this appears to have stalled or otherwise is lower on others' priority lists than I believe it should be. The basic idea would be to have a separate "dev/pureos/changes" (or similarly named) Matrix room that would have this info spammed into it. Discussions would remain on dev/pureos or, of course, on issue tracker, etc. The bug itself unfortunately is a little ambiguous about what we would like to include in the notifications (tracker bugs vs uploads vs Git commits...), but I firmly and adamently believe that getting *anything* at the moment would be great start so I wasn't being overly specific by design. (The task is also being tracked in parallel on the sysadmin tasks tracker too, adding somewhat to the confusion.) Note that this would also help relieve some developers of feeling like they are the only ones who know about certain areas, preventing further potential "siloing" of knowledge. Just to underline, whilst it might appear to be a "wishlist" feature, I believe it will provide some always-needeed social cohesion and connection within the PureOS development team! As geeks we often criminally underrated such things.. we are humans too! Any thoughts? In particular, can we get some strong +1's from you all (especially Jeremiah) to take back to the ticket and hopefully parley that into getting this reprioritised? Best wishes, -- Chris Lamb https://puri.sm From chris.lamb at puri.sm Mon Feb 18 08:23:43 2019 From: chris.lamb at puri.sm (Chris Lamb) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2019 17:23:43 +0100 Subject: [PureOS] ISO image building process documentation? Message-ID: <1550507023.4038378.1660203336.4C7FB6B9@webmail.messagingengine.com> Hi Jeremiah et al., You mentioned to me «en passant» recently that you had built ISO images of PureOS. I was wondering whether you had documented the process for doing this yet? (My motivation is to push forward on reproducible builds of said images as discussed.) Best wishes, -- Chris Lamb https://puri.sm From jeremiah.foster at puri.sm Wed Feb 20 11:12:10 2019 From: jeremiah.foster at puri.sm (Jeremiah C. Foster) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 14:12:10 -0500 Subject: [PureOS] "PureOS changes" notifications In-Reply-To: <1550480254.3414442.1660005272.3A52A003@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1550480254.3414442.1660005272.3A52A003@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <12f55bdf1b7ccfc5c8cb54016871612d31555208.camel@puri.sm> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Mon, 2019-02-18 at 09:57 +0100, Chris Lamb wrote: > Hi -project, > > Many years ago I created an IRC bot for Debian that would live on > its own channel and simply notify on new uploads, bugs and similar > changes in that distribution: > > https://chris-lamb.co.uk/projects/debian-devel-changes-bot > > … it is now rather popular and, indeed, many people have noted to me > in the interim years not only how motivating it was to be exposed to > others' work like that without having to explicitly or actively > look for it but it informs & keeps them up-to-date on the project > in a wider, less-technical, sense. > > I found it also a valuable learning tool — if I don't understand a > bug report that scrolls past I sometimes click it and invariably > end up learning something I didn't previously know. > > § > > In this light, I created the following ticket early last year to > get this rolling for PureOS: > > https://tracker.pureos.net/T375 > > … however, movement on this appears to have stalled or otherwise is > lower on others' priority lists than I believe it should be. > > The basic idea would be to have a separate "dev/pureos/changes" (or > similarly named) Matrix room that would have this info spammed into > it. Discussions would remain on dev/pureos or, of course, on issue > tracker, etc. +1 Jeremiah -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEBkkHqXr+u7OUqMKseFgrT+6RsjkFAlxtposACgkQeFgrT+6R sjmTtAv/Svj9QYUwnWCbY3JR62Gp1EStA780WGr3xGIou6ARUBJcxeigplGN0rHU C39qZo8HACWDJ3pLu/WXa0QHxbxyG6mdjnwwgV9FlJahCvfQHbgOur8EMkCjfUxb gsOjOMulOShdvHlfBeA16/7A99ELibq/fpWQknS+VW6OEveD+xx/7daN160Dx82z Mngvu9vXBzyADxvuWcRynfB4AdUVGOZ5TGg5p9AJYrj2J5EjJVUlkh55Zg8AY9+U M4BPK/AcvVMPJO81FSnJ6SY1/AaAdg2bEq3pSPD99SHnnw/1FJr7T4FTjtD8Cq+5 L3awlr0xEhepFSeIHEazc7//GCHAyjpFgHCmOWZprg9Iv8Jd1EdbuisAyf5GW1SD +Cz21h4+3+pTWTQKTtmeKTH86aUxuioqU1lVfyGf+OVabRWl5N+3Wb/6g2EUgQSQ qVz37Hn7jofrHrMiD13lILl127AFjol2YWd834ylW7vXyRYXIV9k/6y5Jn+2hhgR TJgEs+tp =ZXgp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeremiah.foster at puri.sm Wed Feb 20 17:15:34 2019 From: jeremiah.foster at puri.sm (Jeremiah C. Foster) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2019 20:15:34 -0500 Subject: [PureOS] I CAN HAZ MIRROR? In-Reply-To: References: <686008.ba31d7346936f1a302057cb44255099ae5f9e0f6@popretr.messagingengine.com> <75766f40ff5d472e5cb1078ce44494485d8bc7e7.camel@puri.sm> <1548886434.1428489.1647331424.65B146CA@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <56f00d947f418d5672a65a7f603f1660b60ce239.camel@puri.sm> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On Fri, 2019-02-01 at 12:24 -0500, Jeremiah C. Foster wrote: > On Wed, 2019-01-30 at 23:13 +0100, Chris Lamb wrote: > > Jeremiah wrote: > > > > > There are some folks who're will to mirror our PureOS distro > > > which > > > is > > > very generous of them. > > > > Alas, I fear this is a bigger question that just rsync daemon > > settings. :) > > > > Whilst extremely kind of them, how will this work for our users? For power users we can simply post information in the forums, wiki, and other documentation. That might reduce considerably the bandwidth issues we are seeing now since a sizable portion of our users appear to be fairly technical and messing with /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ oughtn't be too difficult. > Do you mean how do we enable our users to easily take advantage of > the > mirrors? E.g. not having to edit source.list.d/ by hand? Ideally the 'Software' tool from GNOME might be a good candidate to enable switching mirrors. I realize that may be a more long term goal but there are other tools that appear useful in Debian that we might use as well, like apt-mirror. > > Ask them to alter their sources.list? Are we going to commit to > > providing a CDN of some description? I intend to speak to Fastly: https://www.fastly.com/open-source They may be able to help. Work also has begun on a policy document in the internal PureOS wiki. Regards, Jeremiah -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGzBAEBCgAdFiEEBkkHqXr+u7OUqMKseFgrT+6RsjkFAlxt+7YACgkQeFgrT+6R sjlTWAwAhjq2pC61s00tn+GM2m11MurCK+QHGbx0+f8JVnP097ZVJn+JMaux+ct1 CDlHzp7OZHeZwQ+8hd4hgJOlqz/rTniRaQ/Cx3KUAlAhhD1MnYS+mBoqDzcOahUJ kMw2qiPokQbx06WBRGbllIFJ8LDAOBrNaNs4W+m/5z5cihP4t2T1yuJR1dT+W/KC 3978DMAwK6KoN54rgG+Ypc0bPIBOWmKEtbJwlmp1M03MWTnxFUd0M0xiAqKK4Q5+ wJ8WBHZf1/R5Kvwe4oyqdJ1HyrWTAQVqcJghe6RAC3HC9mNWIEshed50yz5lnITQ ppAsJgDP0D7Rn7QPJmzxPeiPla77yrH60NsxjHe+fMX15vJr7utRjjlM7fxJBDmD r2P2y/LoDA0UHz5jhWJbkbzoGMv6cUkKKNrLLM+zH4Xk5qZ9yU6O3KcpsMtvCNG2 F2uX33lQNt74LPBJiSJOGu3EG2ztABvYsyVBbrZzpDs2Rln+QFd9n77ww13ccH1k Hz25LAWY =6F40 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----